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| Name: | Bali - March 31, 2002 |
| E-mail: | swaraj@shaw.ca |
| Comments: | Zahra: Women seldom would sit idle in the Punjab, when free from household chores, they would bring out their spinning wheels and sit out in the open under a tree. Women of all ages and from all houses of the locality sit together and spin, and as they spin they sing. This would be a common sight in pinds. Sometimes on a winter night they would all assemble at someone's house and keep spinning and singing throughout the night. These spinning sessions are called trinjan. The day session is known as Chiri Chirunga (sparrows big and small) and the night session is called Rat Katni (spinning at night). Sometimes there are spinning competitions among young girls with a chain of songs in the background. Spinning is seldom independent of the song. Spinning goes on accompanied by spontaneous, unrestrained music. Trinjan songs cover all aspects of life particularly the long cherished dreams of a woman, her aspirations, fears, love longings and tuggings at the heart. During these sessions life long friendships are are formed and the girls who are married in far off places remember such meetings with nostalgic cravings; Nit nit vagde rahn ge pani, We didn't have any charkhe in session, but Trinjaan de geet gaundiaN rahiaaN, open mic, until we all got into a more giddha mood. Wish you'd been there, chal agle samme sahee! |
| Name: | Zahra - March 31, 2002 |
| E-mail: | Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | Bali: What does Trinjaan mean? You have used this terminology numerous times. Please explain. Imran Ahmed: Point well taken regarding the traditions on the "home grounds." Ironically, the teachings of that religion are not followed in anyway or shape. Just following for the sake of following is useless. Following for something to hold on to is way too different from the aforementioned. Yes, religion will play a role. But culture is a stand alone entity. |
| Name: | Bali K Deol - March 31, 2002 |
| E-mail: | swaraj@shaw.ca |
| Comments: | Ahmed Cheema: Veer ji sorry, towada naa galti naal likh hogaya. The response was actually to Imran Ahmed. Zahra, and to all those that knew about the event I held yesterday 'Shonken Mele Di' was a huge success. Even though ajj uchiian lavian hekaaN laun ton badh, te giddhe vich dhamaalaN paun dee vajaa se, naa aaj awaaz nikuldi a, te nahee pehaR thalle rakh hunde a. It was really colourful, and even for someone like myself who has never really had the opportunity to witness these 'Trinjan' gatherings it was a total treat. Sameer/Dullabhatti munde DJ booth de vich baithe luk luk ke baari vichdi chaakaN marde see, mainu dekh ke towada cheta aa gaya. :)) |
| Name: | Bali K Deol - March 31, 2002 |
| E-mail: | swaraj@shaw.ca |
| Comments: | I instead sir, find your understanding of my remark rediculous. I wrote : Punjabiat wears the blood of her many sons and daughters who fell saving her, the ones that fell when she was torn apart, all of the feelings, emotions, injustices that have been served onto her offspring have been absorbed by her. Going right back to the very first civilizations, such as the Harappa civilization torn apart and destroyed. Now read a little more carefully. Was the Harappa civilization not among the first known to exist in the Punjab, also one of the most cilvilized existences known in that period. The fact is they existed in the Punjab, and my point was all the experiences of the diiferent periods have been absorbed by the Punjab. Please explain what you find so rediculous. About your comment about being Muslim first, then Pakistani....I guess that we sit in separate camps. I consider your kind an enemy of the Punjab, whether they be Indian or Pakistani. Apne puttar ohnu teejee jagaa te rakhde a, kinni dukh vaali gal a. Es jhareeli sochni ne ik vaar saada punjab ujaaR ditta, haun apna zehar hor kitte jaake dolo, jinaa nu sachi muchi pehla taang hai apne virsaa bachaun dee sanu ta naa apnian putthiaN mattaN devo. |
| Name: | Imran Ahmed - March 31, 2002 |
| E-mail: | Garaeen@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | Bali, sorry I am reading your treatise in installments. Just found something ridiculous beyond belief. Now what does "Punjabiat" have to do with a great civilisation like Harrappa? Those were dardic speaking dravidians that our uncouth warring ancestors pushed down South in India. Please explain! |
| Name: | Imran Ahmed - March 31, 2002 |
| E-mail: | Garaeen@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | Bali, East Punjab is to India exactly what West Punjab is to my beloved Pakistan. I thought perhaps you were unware of the dual meanings of the term "Punjabiat" and that's why I asked, but obviously not. Well, that's your perspective which you have every right to. My priorities regardless of being Punjabi my mother tongue are: first and foremost I am a MUSLIM, then Pakistani, and that's about it. Allah Baili |
| Name: | Bali K Deol - March 31, 2002 |
| E-mail: | swaraj@shaw.ca |
| Comments: | Dullabhatti: What is the Harpreet/Kamaljeet Story? Speaking of modern day love stories, one that occured just a year ago here with a local girl who went to India, Jassi/Mitthu proves to me that even if Heer/Ranjha etc were fictional stories, they certainly were stories that depict what goes on even today sometimes in our society. |
| Name: | Bali K. Deol - March 31, 2002 |
| E-mail: | swaraj@shaw.ca |
| Location: | Vancouver, BC Canada |
| Comments: | MTM: I apologize for misunderstanding your question, I would agree with Jaswal that Sikhs have been struggling simply for survival since the day they have been born, fighting invaders, and corrupt, bigoted fanatical rulers, that would have liked nothing better than to see them wiped off the face of this earth. I doubt they had time to take time off to write epics in between battles. Although, The Shri Guru Granth Sahib is written entirely in poetic form, including writings of Sikh Guru’s, Muslim Peer Fakeers, and Hindu’s too, some of in it sufi form. I think your question may be better looked at from the point, that almost all Maraasi’s, the entertainment class were Muslim. Again the above point may be valid. Saying all of the above, today East Punjab’s literary talent is thriving. Although Ahmed Cheema, I would still say we are better leaving religion out of it. This is not a forum to discuss religion. Ik vaari 1947 vich assi religion dee bak bak karke, chand charaa ta, te aaNt da zulm kamaaya. Moving on to what does Punjabiat mean to me, to address your question? Punjabiat is my cultural identity, it is the essence and soul of the things that nourish my being on a daily basis, language, stories, music, festivals, traditions, dances, history (turbulent and sometimes happy) a history that connects me with my fellow Punjabi's. I am a daughter of ‘Punjabiat’ a land and culture that shone like a bright star, until we allowed the diamonds to be stolen from her eyes. Punjabiat is my mother, Punjabi my mother's tongue, the language in which my ancestors wrote stories of my history in beautiful words, that could be expressed in no other language without losing the essence. A joint cultural, diverse heritage crossing religious boundaries, a mother who when betrayed by her own, still loved them still equally. In some ways it is like a cloak I wear, in it I feel as if I play in my mothers lap, content, in her many faces, I find comfort when I am sad, celebration to express my joy, and in her soul often I find contemplation. It's very hard to put into words what it means to me. I realise though that as I have gotten older, and more aware of who I am, my culture has become increasingly important. Punjabiat wears the blood of her many sons and daughters who fell saving her, the ones that fell when she was torn apart, all of the feelings, emotions, injustices that have been served onto her offspring have been absorbed by her. Going right back to the very first civilizations, such as the Harappa cilvilization torn apart and destroyed. Throughout time, men, women, cultures, civilizations have fallen to history yet the five rivers flow and sustain new life constant, forgiving and nurturing. Punjabiat vee ik kism dee dharam a. You say we cannot escape religion! I am a proud Punjabi, and I am a proud Sikh. Both my Punjabiat dharma, and my Sikh dharma have made me the person I am today. They have both taught me lessons, and been there with we every step of the way. Why should I put one ahead of the other, have they both not nurtured my soul and existence? So I do not think of Punjabiat as just one of the beautiful colours of a multi-cultural Pakistan. If I did, what about East Punjab. What about a centuries old unified Punjab. In 1849, Punjab fell to British hands, later on in 1947 it agreed to exchange one form of injustice for another. My beloved Punjab is still in chains, even if her sons and daughters are wearing blindfolds and refuse to see. Ik paase, apni boli bolan ton sharam aundi a, it is called the language of the uneducated. Apni maa boli nu jeendi dubaa ke, urdu nu pehla tazbee ditti, Os ton apranth dooje paase in India, things are rapidly going downhill too. Dullabhatti, I share your pain on what just happened in Punjab assembly. Gal poori karke chaddange lagda, angrezi, urdu kaide paraake, apni maa dee chitta kar baithe a tiaar. I hold dear those people that believe in the Punjab before loyalties to respective countries, the Punjab gained independence from no one, but assi sharam de mare, nahi maan sakde. Honaa diyan maavaN khataar assi apni maa bech ditti. Yes, I feel strongly about this, hence strong words. Its about time we stopped pussyfooting around, and took a long hard look at ourselves. Uchi uchi aankhi geet gaunde a, Punjab kaum, sheraaN di Bahadur kaum, where are you now? In both countries, there is active campaign to destroy Punjabi culture, the Sikhs will soon be a minority in Punjab, going by recent trends, the majority Hindi speaking, what will happen to Punjabi then? For most Punjabi’s, they simply pull the shutters down, haan haan, bahut maara hai, chalo hao, haun kee ho sakda, they have already accepted defeat. Don’t lets sing songs about people like Bhagat Singh, if we can’t even aim to live up to their standard. Punjabiat is not a devisive tool, but a unifying and strengthening one for Punjab, and Punjabi’s. Recently, taking a look at politial events in India, at what has been happening in East Punjab for the last decade, I have a real fear, the Punjab is slowly running like sand through the fingers of the people that have even an iota of respect for its culture, and language. At the helm of the ship that is supposed to represent us, sit traitors, whose only dharma is money, power and greed. We have to speak more confidently, we have to make demands, time is running out, and I am not being melodramatic. The writing is on the wall. I too right now Dullabhatti am ashamed, apaaN Punjabiat nu maa akhde a, we say maa as a metaphor, je vakiya is maa nu ik din milna hove, te kehra mooNh laike jaavange ohde kol. For all the people on this forum, that put dedication to the preservation of our boli and culture first and foremost, may our efforts be blessed. For those that pay lip service, think about what I have said. Rabb Rakha! |
| Name: | Ahmed Cheema - March 31, 2002 |
| E-mail: | acheema21@yahoo.com |
| Comments: | Anyone who is searching for Xians or for converts on this forum needs to understand the concept of this forum first , we are discussing the language and the culture , so if someone is already Xian and Panjabi that person I would assume knows about the culture and the language without having to ask us. Impostors please stick to your forums. |
| Name: | Moizullah Tariq Malik - March 31, 2002 |
| E-mail: | moizmalik@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | Misunderstandings are very easy to create and very difficult to remove. Another question a 10th grader has raised is that "why people are intolerant - did education has any role in it?" I once read Professor Mohan Singh's famous poem "O kider gae dihaRay Jadh Chhatoo Day pichhwaRay SaaN Bair Chhatoo Day Dhanday Hass Hass kay galaaN khanday" ... this poem points towards growing intolerance in our society...was people more tolerant in the past?? if yes, why this situation is going towards worst side.......??? |
| Name: | Imran Ahmed - March 31, 2002 |
| E-mail: | Garaeen@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | Bali, I was just wondering in what context are you using the term "Punjabiat"? Do you mean the love for Punjabi (language and culture) or Punjabi as a devisive tool? Because many of us consider Punjabi just another beautiful color of Pakistan's multicolor cultural canvas - no more no less. Also, religion being the most common denominator among humans all over the world will always come up in discussions whether we like it or not. And especially on "our grounds", religion has always been at the center stage of people's lives. Those who think otherwise might want to check with Indus Valley archeologists. Allah Baili |
| Name: | Imran Ahmed - March 31, 2002 |
| E-mail: | Garaeen@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | Bali, I was just wondering in what context are you using the term "Punjabiat"? Do you mean the love for Punjabi (language and culture) or Punjabi as a devisive tool? Because many of us consider Punjabi just another beautiful color of Pakistan's multicolor cultural canvas - no more no less. Also, religion being the most common denominator among humans all over the world will always come up in discussions whether we like it or not. And especially on "our grounds", religion has always been at the center stage of people's lives. Those who think otherwise might want to check with Indus Valley archeologists. Allah Baili |
| Name: | Moizullah Tariq Malik - March 31, 2002 |
| E-mail: | moizmalik@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | Dear ZJ gi ... I really appologize for not expressive myself in my initial query. The reason was not to create a dishormony on religious grounds but to find out the real reasons if any are there behind this situational uniformity as I was asked for which I had no answer. Heer was not written by Waris Shah alone but was written by many in the period of Mughal King Akbar. These folk stories I think are fictional because Waris Shah wrote in Heer that "Ay rouh qalboot da zikr sara - Naal aqal day mail milaya ay". Punjab and Punjabi was there even before Guru Nanak so as these stories are. I was not in any way wanted to hurt anybody's feeling and no one should get offended too but i once again say SORRY for creating misunderstanding... |
| Name: | Zahra - March 30, 2002 |
| E-mail: | Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | MTM: I think the original question clearly requested for the differences based on religion. Your innocent query changed the subject to romanticism, but appeared to be linked with the original query. My apologies for misunderstanding your point! I think you twisted the context of the original question. That's just my opinion. Then, I have this buri adat of expressing my opinion every now and then :) Also, I owed a clarification for quoting the couplet, "Khamoshi Guftagoo Hae..." I never implied myself here. I was speaking on behalf of the events that took place. Not that I needed to explain the context, but sometimes in the presence of masoom bachae like "you know who..." I find it important to explain each and every word I utter and my intent behind saying those thoughts and words :) :) :) |
| Name: | Jaswal - March 30, 2002 |
| E-mail: | pnjabisrus@yahoo.com |
| Comments: | I think we don't see many stories/folk tales written by or about Sikhs because it's relatively new on the religion stage. Moreover, during their short existence Sikhs were and are busy fighting for survival. There are more important issues, atleast in my opinion, to think about for the Sikh intellectuals than to sit there and write romance novels. So, if you consider that, then certainly there are folk tales, but they are mainly about the sikh struggle. |
| Name: | Jaswal - March 30, 2002 |
| E-mail: | pnjabisrus@yahoo.com |
| Comments: | DullaBhatti ji, I don't think dubb ke maran naal kush hona ah, but I think this change of language in the assembly requires attention to the bigger issue. The question is why should Punjabi survive in this new world of ever decreasing size? With tremendous growth in technology, it seems as if the world has become one market. To live in this new market, you have to speak English 'cause the countries/cultures who hold the power are english speaking. So, what does Punjabi offer that would make it withstand this English tsunami? It seems to like evolution is taking its course and eliminating all languages, but English. This is a world of science and technology and all related work is done in english. And, that's how one makes money today by doing work in these or related fields. People go to school so that they could grow up and make money (one could argue otherwise, but we all know this is the real reason) and that directly translates to English. If money remains the main mission of people's life, then I'm not sure what can be done... |
| Name: | DullaBhatti - March 30, 2002 |
| E-mail: | dullabhatti47@yahoo.com |
| Comments: | There are other stories also with non-muslim heroes like Puran Bhagat, Jeona Maurh, Sucha, Balbiro, Jaani Chor, KaulaN, Rani SundraN..and I am forgetting one couple a Jatti and a kapray di dukaan wala Bania who fell in love with Jatti who came to buy clothes from him......actually she joked with him je ainna ee piyar ay te dukaan nu agg la de...and he did it. etc. Many other kissas like Laila Majnu, ShereeN Farhad etc are not original in Punjabi, if I am not wrong. They just were such good stories that many languages created kissas on them. but so for in Punjabi Heer-Ranjha, Sohni- Mahiwal and Mirza-SahibaN are the most popular stories. To tell you the truth they are so colored with Punjabi culture that many non-muslims don't even know that Heer or Sahiba were muslims. Another reason that comes to mind is that most of the Hindu literature was oriented towards praising and writing stories about devi devtas and religious oriented. and Sikhs te waiseee storian banaande ne likhde nai:-). I wonder if someone will write a kissa on Harpreet/Kamaljit story that happened 2 yrs ago. I heard someone wrote a street play on it and was played in Chandigarh last year. |
| Name: | Moizullah Tariq Malik - March 30, 2002 |
| E-mail: | moizmalik@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | I know the difference between culture, religion and languages but the question was rather innocently asked as rightly mentioned by DB Ji, the folk love stories like Mirza, Ranjha, Murad, Gulfam, Mahiwaal, Dulha Bhatti, Nizam Lohar etc.... was it because there creators were of that side or what? it is somewhat a question of reasoning ....... i know it makes no difference to me ...... and to the others too .... i am sorry if this question caused any ill feeling..... |
| Name: | DullahBhatti - March 30, 2002 |
| E-mail: | dullabhatti47@yahoo.com |
| Comments: | Bali, I think the question was about lovers in Punjabi folk stories like Ranjha, Mirza, etc. I is a very sad and shameful news for all Punjabis that Punjab Govt. (in India) has changed a 30 yr old law of doing business in Punjab Assembly in Punjabi to adopt English as their new medium of conducting business in Punjab Assembly. This decision has been taken by no one else but Punjabi representives themselves. This issue as not even raised in elections last month. It is a sham that on such issues impacting our future so intensely, common people are not taken into confidence at all. yes Punjabis can punish this Govt in next elections but by then it won't make any difference no one ever reverse this decision. I feel so sad that as Hindus and Muslims turned their backs on Punjabi, Sikhs are doing the same. I am feeling so ashamed today being associated with Punjabis who has such a low self esteem and self pride. If this is how Punjabi leadership and elite thinks we are doomed to extinction. Down with Punjab Government of Capt. Amarinder Singh< |
| Name: | Zahra - March 30, 2002 |
| E-mail: | Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | I agree with Bali. Personally, I feel that it was an arrogant and sweeping statement. This is the same thing that I challenged an Allama on during one of our cultural events. I said why do not you guys have the guts to speak on the media about that fact that there are good and bad people in all societies, in all cultures and in all religions. There are good muslims; there are bad muslims. You cannot say that the bad Muslims are not Muslims and this is not what Islam says. You should stick to the above rationale that I have uttered. The Allama, a very tall african american guy, looked at me, with a smile and said I agree. I said do not agree with me for the sake of agreement. Say that when you appear on Fox/CNN/ABC! I do not know if he did or not, but I confronted him on my stance in front of a hall of people. MTM: Culture and Religion are not the same thing. I was discussing this with anothe senior gentleman a few days ago. I spoke about my regards for Iqbal's verses but I also expressed my concern on the misdirection those verses can provide if they are in-appropriately followed. On our grounds, culture is way too older than religion. So, let's not confuse their existance. They are unique entities. Yes, some features have merged but not all. They cannot. |
| Name: | Bali - March 30, 2002 |
| E-mail: | swaraj@shaw.ca |
| Comments: | The comment about all Punjabi lovers being muslim is untrue, inaccurate, and and a very ignorant remark, who ever asked it. I would argue that the people of East Punjab are the first to pay respects to their mother tongue, partly as it is also the language of their religion. All things aside though, why is conversation on this board suddenly turning to religion?? Hindu, Sikh, muslim or christian, anyone who works for the promotion of punjabiat is equally important. Lets please not single people out based on what religion they are from, and who does more. If you still feel most Punjabi lovers are muslim, please back it up with facts, research and solid confirmations, not personal observations. Bari meharbani towadi. |
| Name: | Zahra - March 30, 2002 |
| E-mail: | Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | Saeed Farani: I think you did not pay attention to my previous email. Unfortunately, I do not cherish the luxury of time to rewrite. Please go back and read carefully. OK ? Thanks. |
| Name: | Moizullah Tariq Malik - March 30, 2002 |
| E-mail: | moizmalik@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | Someone asked me and i had no answer....the question is why almost all punjabi lovers are muslims? can anyone has an answer ......the straight one.......... |
| Name: | Saeed Farani - March 30, 2002 |
| E-mail: | saeedfarani@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | Zahra, Write me in detail what you want regarding some information in and around Jhelum. What our people want and what you want to provide? What areas you want to help? What are your criterias to help people. People never give true information if they are not told the correct cause. Zahra, people here ( and of course everywhere) are money cautious. As Noor Jehan's famous song "Menu note wakha, mera mood baney". So tell me what u want to do in detail and then I will write u whether I am able to help u or not. There are many areas which need a lot of help. Though, NGOs are working but most of the NGOs performance is almost like our tradition (Mizaj), khao, piyo, moaj uRao, jag da allah beli. So please write me in detail so if I go to the people I could tell them that we can do for you this and that. OKKKKKKKK. |
| Name: | Joseph John - March 30, 2002 |
| E-mail: | josephjohnsialkoti@hotmail.com |
| Location: | Sialkot, Pakistan |
| Comments: | Dear Moizullah Tariq Malik, I'm not trying to look for reasons but trying not to forget heroes of the Panjabi movement. Infact we all need to remember and appreciate their work and efforts for the Panjabi language. Joseph John. |
| Name: | Zahra - March 29, 2002 |
| E-mail: | Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | JD: I was at a session a few years back when the speaker spoke about the human sentiments - love and hate. He gave the example of Hind, the woman who acted like a savage and ate Prophet Mohd(PBUH)'s uncle's organ(I am not sure if it was his heart or his liver.) Once this woman embraced Islam, she was extremely nice to the Prophet and was willing to sacrfice anything for him. The speaker while moving from one extreme to another said alot. Just like out of sheer love, human beings can conquer places that are not accessible otherwise. Similarly, out of hate, worst can take place. One of my colleagues commented that it's an uncivilized world where incidents like burning human beings take place. Civilized people don't stoop that low. I immediately corrected her and told her that the civilization of our countries is way back and older than that of the US'. Sadly, in our part the law and order has no definitive form, therefore there is no accountability. People can get away with all kinds of things. It's not about believing in a book; I guess it's the lack of it that provokes people to react so savagely. |
| Name: | Moizullah Tariq Malik - March 29, 2002 |
| E-mail: | moizmalik@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | Dear JJS I think we should not look for reasons but should do what we can. regards |
| Name: | DullahBhatti - March 29, 2002 |
| E-mail: | dullabhatti47@yahoo.com |
| Comments: | The problem is not that we are not true Hindu, Muslim or Sikh but that our insane wish that somewhow if we became "true"(whatever that means)Hindu, Sikh and Muslim all our problems will go away. That desire to get rid of all our problems(by becoming "truer" and "truer") leads to violence, hatred,self-righteousness and un-acceptance of other "true" wanna-be folks. Let us try to stay what we are...humans. Rabb ne banday banayea ay te banday bann ke rahiye. DullahBhatti False amongst the Falses. keeTaN ander keeT. |
| Name: | Moizullah Tariq Malik - March 29, 2002 |
| E-mail: | moizmalik@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | Dear JD Are we true Hindu Are We true Musalmaan No we are truely UnpaR we are truely Unjaan |
| Name: | Zahra - March 29, 2002 |
| E-mail: | Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | Jiwan Dave: "Are we true Hindus? Are we true Musalmans?" :( Reminds me of: "Naheen Minnat Kushae' Taabae' Shuneedan Daastan Maeree Khamoshi Guftagoo Hae Baezubani Hae Zubaan Maeree |
| Name: | Joseph John - March 29, 2002 |
| E-mail: | josephjohnsialkoti@hotmail.com |
| Location: | Sialkot, Pakistan |
| Comments: | Dear Moizullah Tariq Malik, The reason I have asked this question is that I read in one of the books (Language & Culture in Pakistan) by Dr. Tariq Rehman in the section about Panjabi language movement that there was a Panjabi christian man named Johsua Fazaldin who was an active member of the punjabi movement and did lot for Panjabi language and movement. I wonder if there are still other panjabi christians who are contributing towards the development of my beloved Panjabi, as I myself am Panjabi Christian and looking very much to work for the promotion of Panjabi. Joseph John. |
| Name: | Gurmeet - March 29, 2002 |
| E-mail: | gurmeet@ikonkar.com |
| My URL: | http://5abination.topcities.com/index |
| Location: | London, UK |
| Comments: | Sikhar duphaar mera dhaal chaalia parchawan kaabra udeek deyian jawey putta nu mawaa |
| Name: | Imran Ahmed - March 29, 2002 |
| E-mail: | Garaeen@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | Greetings, This is my frist time posting here. Just wanted to commend the efforts of all those involved in maintaining such a wonderful site for the promotion of Punjabi literature on the net. Your selection of both classical and modern Punjabi poetry is simply marvelous. Music selection is good too. I love listening to Punjabi folk music. I would have much more nicer things to say about your music collection had you not left out "ni ik phul moatiae da maar ke jaga sohniae" by my all time favorite Mansoor Ali Malangi. No "apnda garaan howe" by Malak Ali Malku either.:( Allah Baili |
| Name: | Jiwan Dave - March 28, 2002 |
| E-mail: | johndavidca@hotmail.com |
| My URL: | |
| Location: | Surrey, BC CA |
| Comments: | Are we true Hindus? Are we true Musalmans? If we are so — Then why are we taking each other’s jaan? Which religion are we following — Are we following the Gita? Are we following the Koran? We are not human beings We are not even animals We are worst than shaitans What will we gain If we build a temple or what will we gain if we make a mosque by killing so many insaans? You must tell your spiritual leaders ‘don’t try to become Bhagwans’ First try to love your neighbour First try to become insaans Only then we will follow the Gita Only then we will follow the Koran Only then we should hold the Tiranga Only then we should sing — "Hamara Bharat Mahan’ |
| Name: | Zahra - March 28, 2002 |
| E-mail: | Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | Saeed Farani: I have requested you for some information on Jhelum and its suburbs. Could you please respond or let me know that you cannot respond? I will appreciate that. By the way, your findings on "the complex" part were eye-opening!" :) |
| Name: | Moizullah Tariq Malik - March 28, 2002 |
| E-mail: | moizmalik@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | Dear J.J.Sialkoti: I donot understand what is the purpose of your knowing about punjabi christian member. This I believe is a cultural forum and we should and must avoid bringing in ethnicity or religious flavour into it. Best regards |
| Name: | Saeed Farani - March 27, 2002 |
| E-mail: | saeedfarani@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | Dear Mahmud, I don't think this is the case with Sindhies, Pathans and Baloch. They don't have any complex. They are clear headed about the feelings for their beloved mother tongues. And if they get some chances in study they prove brillient. Our case is entirely different than all these groups. We are the main and some says dominant group in Pakistan but we are gullible. We follow that minority group who is ruling over us intellectually on the name of so called nazria-e-Pakistan which suits dominating groups in each and every sector. You must try to understand the article of Washington Post which you mentioned in your last comments. Is not unfortunate that all the lolly pops (lip servises) are for the masses of this country and all the economic, social, cultural, educational and even spiritual gains are for the ruling class. They treat us like subject and conditions are worse than the era of aliens'domination period.I always emphasis that language plays a very prominent role in this contest. I love simplicity because our sufi poets taught us simplicity in their verses. Only we are the case on the globe who hate their mother tongue and I mentioned this thing many times that we are forced to hate our mother tongue because of government of Pakistan's hostile policy against Punjabi, the language of majority in Pakistan. You must understand this thing. Punjabis have complex in their minds. |
| Name: | Joseph John - March 27, 2002 |
| E-mail: | josephjohnsialkoti@hotmail.com |
| Location: | Sialkot, Pakistan |
| Comments: | Panjabi friends, Are there any Punjabi christians, member of APNA? I would like to know if any. Thanks, Joseph. |
| Name: | Ahmed Cheema - March 25, 2002 |
| E-mail: | Acheema21@yahoo.com |
| Location: | Sialkot, pAKISTAN |
| Comments: | I am from Sialkot and in the tune of discussions here I would like to point out that the last time I looked up the Arab League , Pakistan was not a member , so whys is it that we in Pakistan have to lose our culture just to appease the Saudis so that they may |
| Name: | Bali - March 25, 2002 |
| E-mail: | swaraj@shaw.ca |
| Comments: | Hey Guys, I'm doing a show on Shaheede Azam Bhagat Singh today, so anyone interested make sure to tune in. |
| Name: | JS Dhaliwal - March 24, 2002 |
| E-mail: | dhaliwal@tinyworld.co.uk |
| Location: | Birmingham, UK |
| Comments: | Its wonderful to have come upon this site - I begin to feel hope that educated, sane Punjabis are beginning at last to assert a vision for peaceful co-existence and promulgation of our shared language and culture. A request - please could all articles appear in both Shahmukhi, Gurmukhi and Romanized Punjabi - I would very much to read 'Al-Basant' ! Best wishes for the continued success of this site. |
| Name: | DullahBhatti - March 24, 2002 |
| E-mail: | dullabhatti47@yahoo.com |
| Comments: | A very touching story of Punjabi open hearts in todays papers. http://www.tribuneindia.com/2001/20010224/windows/main1.htm http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20020324/punjab1.htm#5 |
| Name: | Gursharan Singh - March 22, 2002 |
| E-mail: | gsinghh@hotmail.com |
| Location: | reston, va USA |
| Comments: | Dear Bawa Vir, Tuhada lakh vaar Thank you. Jo websites tusi direct kitiyaan. mainu kaafi photos mil gayiyaan han. ik presentation varga masala teyaar ho geya hai ohnaa ton. once again thank you very much. Rab Rakha |
| Name: | Mahmud Fahim - March 22, 2002 |
| E-mail: | agsmz@yahoo.com |
| Location: | Vienna, VA USA |
| Comments: | Dear Saeed: what about the students belong to interior Sind, Baluchistan and NWFP? Sindhis and Pathans are learning in their language at primary level. There are many other factors, not just the language. These types of comparisons are the efforts to break the quota system etc etc. What do You think??? |
| Name: | Saeed Farani - March 22, 2002 |
| E-mail: | saeedfarani@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | Dear APNA friends, two days ago the Daily Jang (Uudu) published one survey in which they concluded that students in Karachi are more talented than in Lahore. Their comprehension power (understanding things easily) is more than Lahori students. Of course it is quite understood that the comprehension power of Karachi walas is more than Punjabies because the main reason is linguistic problem with the Punjabies which is not with the Urdu walas or Karachi walas. Punjabi kids who are from Punjabi speaking parents background are not well conversant in the language "Urdu" or even in English because they have to face many hurdle reaching the level which the Urdu walas have. (This is also very good topic for Mr. Yosaf Sadiq). When you don't encourage a language in media, education and even streets then how you can expect the comprehension level of Lahori kids will be ellevated, of caurse the language environment in Karachi is far better than any city in Pakistan. Urdu is a dominated language in Pakistani media, education and mosques so of course they (Urdu walas who also learn it from Urdu speaking mother who has a rich vocabulary of Urdu as compare to Punjaban Urdu speaking who has a very little vocabulary) so talking back is difficult at Punjabi's home where as it is very quick in Urdu speaking's home so their comprehention level will of course be very high. Here, I appreciate the intentional or unintentional struggle of Qasoori family's Beacon and City houses schools chain and missionar schools who asked thier kids to talk in English and this way if the Punjabies lost their mother tongue but they could save their rights in jobs through English language. And if this blunder could happen in these English medium schools too as it is being practised in our Urdu medium schools then there was no any way for us except the complete slavery of these Urdu speaking intelligentia that controlling the country. What is pity for Punjabies that they could not realise this situation and now they are in the biggest trouble of their history. I would love to read comments of intellectuals in or against my comments on this board. |
| Name: | bawa - March 22, 2002 |
| E-mail: | bnanno@indiatimes.com |
| Location: | Leioa, Spain |
| Comments: | Gursharanji, There are 3 pictures that you can save by right-clicking at this link http://punjabgovt.nic.in/Culture/culture.htm There are more at this link, but are rather small http://www2.santabanta.com/punjab/culture&history/punjabdances.htm A couple of really spectacular photos and plenty of others at http://www.justpunjab.com/culture/jpdances.cfm Hope these are what you were looking for, Bawa. |
| Name: | gursharan singh - March 21, 2002 |
| E-mail: | gsinghh@hotmail.com |
| Location: | reston, va USA |
| Comments: | Hello all, Sajjno mei koi aise website labh reha haan jis ton mai aapney lok naach diyan photographs download kar sakaan. je kise nu koi aisee website da pata hai te forum te post kar ke mere te eh mehrbaani karni. |
| Name: | bagga daku - March 21, 2002 |
| E-mail: | bagga@dakuz.net |
| Comments: | hey bali,, does the radio link currently work from the web? im having problems connecting. |
| Name: | bawa - March 21, 2002 |
| E-mail: | bnanno@indiatimes.com |
| Location: | Leioa, Spain |
| Comments: | Dear Baliji, TuseeN barhi sohni teraaN "Punjabi" nu tokeyayi. Tuhadi gal bilkul sahi hae. To all APNA: I was reading some Punjabi folk tales as collected by R. Temple in 1884; the Punjabi is in Roman font, if you are interested, here is the link http://www.sadapunjab.com/SP2001/LITRATURE/legend.asp |
| Name: | Bali - March 20, 2002 |
| E-mail: | swaraj@shaw.ca |
| Comments: | Dear Punjabi, perhaps you could enlighten us all with your wisdom. My two cents that I'm sure is well below your level of wisdom, that Aisee Vani Boliye, Mun Ka Aapa Khoye Apna Tan Sheetal Kare, Auran Ko Sukh Hoye, or perhaps in english when you can find nothing constructive to say, it's better to keep 'shtumm' I wish people would use their names, instead of anonymous postings, nothing personal, its a collective thing. |
| Name: | Punjabi - March 20, 2002 |
| E-mail: | punjabi@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | Majority of the people who post their two bits on this board have no clue what they are saying. It’s more of a personal thing than a collective thing. |
| Name: | Dr. Javed Zaki - March 20, 2002 |
| E-mail: | zakimoha@msu.edu |
| Comments: | Dear Yousaf! You should visit the Department of Anthropology, Quid-i-Azam University-Islamabad, the Department of Sociology, the Pakistan Institute of Development Economics (which is also located on the campus of Quid-i-Azam University) and the Department of Sociology, Panjab University-Lahore. You would be able to find a lot of recent material there. Books suggested by Dulla Bhatti are good but too old. Nevertheless, they may be a good source to comprehend the issue. It is my serious suggestion that you should plan a field though with a small sample. There has been a significant change in the social environmental life in Pakistan, since the above mentioned books were published. If you can be a little more specific in terms of your study (what do you want to study? Values and norms about what subject matter), I probabaly can be of more help. |
| Name: | bawa - March 20, 2002 |
| E-mail: | bnanno@indiatimes.com |
| Location: | leioa, spain |
| Comments: | Dear Yousafji, This link may have something for you to begin with or at least to get some contacts http://www.universitypunjabi.org/pages/article/anthropololinguist-punjlang/articlesarchive.html |
| Name: | DullahBhatti - March 20, 2002 |
| E-mail: | dullabhatti47@yahoo.com |
| Comments: | Dear Yousaf Sadiq: I am not an anthropologist or a social scientist or anythng even close.. so any answer I give can be far from any basis. but I will say something anyway:-). I once read a book "A Punjabi Village in Pakistan" by Elgar Zekiye, an anthro student. She visited and lived in a small village called..oops I even forgot the name...in Gujrat district for 5 years from 1951(?) to 1955/56. She wrote the social structure of the village and its relations with other surrounding villages as it was then. This was just after partition and the area was devoid of any hindu or sikh residents but all his social descriptions and traditions were exactly the same as we still have in East Punjab..at least most of it. She commented few times how with the creation of Pakistan and area being all muslim now, the social structure and life is changing slowly. After reading that book I always wondered since life in that village in West Punjab and any other village in East Punjab was same in 50s and with the change in geo-political situation, how it might have changed now. It would be a good study to compare her thesis(book) from 50's with the social structure and life in the same village now. May be interview and study the grandsons and granddaughters of the elders she studied and see how life in a Punjabi village has changed in the last 50 years. One can go even further and pick a similar village(similar location, population composition, land ownership etc) in East Punjab and compare the two and study how Punjabi traditions have been impacted by over-influence of religion in Punjabi life in the last 50 years. Here are few books on the similar subject matter I searched on Amazon.com. |
| Name: | suman - March 20, 2002 |
| E-mail: | skashy@yahoo.com |
| Comments: | Bawa. Yes indeed, he is Vilayat Khan's son and a sitarist himself. The only Punjy work he has done so far is on the Lajo Lajo album. The simplicity of the folk songs combine in a wonderful way with the complexity of the sitar. The traditional, creatively approached, from a fresh direction! |
| Name: | gursharan singh - March 20, 2002 |
| E-mail: | gsinghh@hotmail.com |
| Location: | reston, va USA |
| Comments: | Dua Salaam Punjabi Peyaareo, Pichle kai dina ton read reha c. Aapne mitti chad ke auon da sall. Eh te is tarah hai ke jo v roji di khatir aapni jooh chad ke tur peya. Ose bande de dil vich hi es tarah di kahani hai. baaki jo ik likhnwaale ne likheya c ke ki hoya je aasi be-vatney ho gaye haan. jo pichey reh gaye han jo haaley v jamn-bhoin di mitti da nigh maan rahey han oh v te saadi extended family hai. bajaaye ke afsos karan de ohna khuskismat garraiyaan de through asi be-vatney v us nigh nu maan sakde haan. koi eda likhari te nahin par aapni mitti de layi lokaan di tadap vekh ke mere kolon reh nahi hoya. O.K. ALL RAB RAKHA |
| Name: | Bawa - March 20, 2002 |
| E-mail: | bnanno@indiatimes.com |
| Location: | Leioa, Spain |
| Comments: | Dear APNA members, Just saw the new additions to the music sections with the new additons and new music of Batalvi songs. Very commendable, Dolly Guleria (Surinder Kaur's daughter, I believe) is good, and I have been experimenting by listening to the same songs rendered by different singers, sabne barhi chhangi tarhaan na gaya hae, but if you go to the same sung by him originally, what a difference! Lagda e ke asli dil nuN ohna nuN suNke lavsaaN da kuchh hor matlab nikalda hae. Anyhow, the quality of all the songs on your page is very good. |
| Name: | Bawa - March 20, 2002 |
| E-mail: | bnanno@indiatimes.com |
| Location: | Leioa, Spain |
| Comments: | Dear Suman The only Shujaat Khan I know is a sitar player, the son of Ustad Vilayat Khan. I do not suppose it is the same person, although he does have an album listed as Folk, and is also a vocalist. My curiosity has been awakened. |
| Name: | Yousaf Sadiq - March 20, 2002 |
| E-mail: | panjabilinguist@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | Dear all, I didn't get any response from people on my earlier question that I posted at this discussion room. My question is as below: I'm wish to do an Anthropology (study of man's beliefs and culture/customs) research of my beloved Panjabi culture here in Pakistan. I have following two questions from you & would appreciate your response. 1) What has been written (Anthroplogical research) so far on Panjabi and is available here in Pakistan? If yes, where can I get all the related materials? 2) What anthropological aspects are not touched or written before and you feel one needs to write and do some research on them? some interesting topics/thoughts for such research? Thanks. |
| Name: | Bawa - March 20, 2002 |
| E-mail: | bnanno@indiatimes.com |
| Location: | Leioa, Spain |
| Comments: | It has been a pleasure reading all the poems and the discussion of ghazals, very enlightening comments. Will look forward to seeing Nooran on APNA: thanks very much for the same. No, haven't heard the othe rsinger you mention, and will keep an eye out for him. Came across this seminar by Urvashi Batalia, author of the book "The Other Side of Silence" on partition accounts, here is the link for anyone interested http://www.india-seminar.com/2001/497/497%20urvashi%20butalia.htm |
| Name: | DullahBhatti - March 20, 2002 |
| E-mail: | dullabhatti47@yahoo.com |
| Comments: | Zakki sahib, here is few lines by Babu rajab Ali for whom his pinD Sahoke became a pardes after 1947. nang kangla, harijan ho, bhaweiN sardar ghare ho rehsi, haye poye dushTo, Babu Rajab Ali vi na bakhasheya???? |
| Name: | DullahBhatti - March 20, 2002 |
| E-mail: | dullabhatti47@yahoo.com |
| Comments: | Bali: That was a very moving account of your family's migration away from home. I guess everyone of us has stories like yours. Zaki sahib has put the feelings very well. Many such personal stories are flying aorund in my mind for years and I am no story teller..I hope some day I will pen some of those down..particularly apne daaday te piyo dian kahaanian. Who was singing that song you played today? dhooRh vi miThi lagdi is mere pinD dian gallian di....? very nice. Suman ji, thanks for the honsla afzai..I will transliterate few more soon..at least the ones have books on..Dr. Harbhajan Singh(Dilli), Babu Rajab Ali, Harinder Singh Mehboob, Jagtaar, SS Misha, Surjit Patar, etc. Finally my home network is up after a long time..I was using laptop for months..and now scanner, printer, cd writer etc is up and running...as well put them in some use. |
| Name: | Javed Zaki - March 20, 2002 |
| E-mail: | zakimoha@msu.edu |
| Comments: | Bali! TooN te kamli te jhaali eiN. Je neiN te ho jaaviN gi te naal hor kiniaaN noon jhalla keriN gi. Apne Dad de monhooN nikle bol likhh ke aklaapiaaN di soolaaN vinnhe dilaaN te jussiaaN nooN piya taRkhaana. Eh do satraaN paRh ke hanjoo-vaaN de soome inj khulle, lagda si akhhiaan vehRe shook-de Ravi te ChanaaN muck jaasan. Jamman bhoeiN tooN vichhRan da dukh te ik lame azaab da moddh e. Oh azaab jehRa be-watani de narakh da taryouR. Sufne vich vi jadooN koi vichhaRya pal apni bukkaaN di kujjiaaN vich siNbhaal kisse sajjan da par-chhaa-vaaN, kisse gali di dhooR, kisse Ravi da pavittar paani, kisse joti-daar da haasa, kisse bhain-bhara da hoka, kisse Lahore air-port te wadaa karan aai maaN di hanjavaan bhri takni le ke aa jaanda e te oh pal looN-looN de moddh bhaNbaR la daiNde ne. GharaaN noon lok jandre la aande ne par bhaKh-diaan soochaan da kih karan. OhnaaN de jussiaaN de poraaN vichooN ussardi apne pind-thaaN di mitti di mehak, doojiaaN di akhaaN de sehra-vaaN te beThi chhoi-moi JaiTh-haaRh di narol dhupp nooN vaikh ke kih karan. |
| Name: | suman - March 19, 2002 |
| E-mail: | skashy@yahoo.com |
| Comments: | Dulla B. Enjoyed your new poem/gazal. BTW I never knew that "Ik Bootta Ambi Da" was a poem by Prof. Mohan Singh. Have not read any of the modern poets except Batalvi because it is a struggle for me to read in Gurmukhi. Therefore thank you for putting it into roman. Anyway, it was a wonderful surprise. I hope that you will continue to do this for other modern poets as well. You must have heard this poem sung by Deedar Pardesi - very nice indeed. Bawa. Nooraan should be on soon. So will Shujaat Khan. If you have not heard him before you will like it - he sings punjy folk songs in a totally different style than anyone else - at least as far as I know. |
| Name: | Zahra - March 19, 2002 |
| E-mail: | Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | apna team: khuda hafiz for sometime...(60-65 days). |
| Name: | gursharan singh - March 19, 2002 |
| E-mail: | gsinghh@hotmail.com |
| Location: | reston, va USA |
| Comments: | safir saheb I was reading on the forum post by bawa from spain in re: to a cd that is created in south africa that has lots of punjabi folk vocals. if we can find someone in south africa in cape town or in johansberg that can led us to obtain this cd is called deepest india part 1. so see if we can stir some things around to get that cd. it will be a great post for APNA website. |
| Name: | Saeed Farani - March 19, 2002 |
| E-mail: | saeedfarani@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | Dear Zahra, I am sorry I was just away from Rawalpindi for last two days and stayed in Jhelum where we had chaliahaaN (CHALISWAAN) and some home issues to be addressed in my presence. So I am just back now. You asked my response about the recent incident of Shia killings in Pindi. It is almost now every day la affair du common that shia mosques or imambargahs, sunni mosques and recently another addition ie churches are under attack by various groups. I understand ur frustration regarding such inhuman incidents. You asked about the reactions of the people. It is just normal. Today, day time newspaper published another killing incident from Lahore and under the black headline the editor also place four column full figured foto of Saima ( actress from lolywood). So people could be balanced and they could sell the newspapers with both the contents ( sex and voilence that is the same subject of our movies.) So people (like dog mentaliy) buy tickets for such movies. They are normal. And, Zahra, why people would react? Did you read afsaana of Minto "khol do" if not just go through it. This is the afsaana written by Minto on 1947s' various scenes. So what I observe that the masses of this country are just like the girl lying in the bed of the hospital waiting the call of somebody in their ear and then just act like her. In the afsaana it was the girl who was treated by a doctor. When the doctor asked people in the presence her father (the poor unfortunate man who had been searching for her daughter in the most horrible time on the people of Punjab in the month of August, 1947 and finally he found her daughter in the hospital of Lahore where that innocent young sensless girl was lying) that |khol do" the girl's hands moved toward her shalwar's belt (naRa). Actually, doctor was pointing towards window and saying these words to somebody standing in the room but the girl who was rapped by her so called muslim bretherns after being rapped in India by so called Sikhs and Hindus fellow humanbeings (in fact not) so Zahra, masses of this country are just like the same sensless poor innocent girl. I know you are sad and feel very disgusted but what we can do? The forces who are involved in these cases seem very powerful and us like that........................... |
| Name: | Zahra - March 18, 2002 |
| E-mail: | Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | I would wait to read Saeed Farani's response, but at this time I would like to bid good bye to this forum for sometime. Our world is being turned upside down. People are being killed right and left. Human life is being violated for no reason. I am very sad and disgusted. What even amazes me is the lack of concern and regard for human life in our part of the world, known as Pakistan. Personally, I think all the kites should be burnt than flown. This is a joke. On one end, minorities and muslims are being killed and on the other end, some callous ones are flying kites. Apparently, the authorities are sleeping in their sound proof sleeping bags therefore they cannot hear any victim's plea. What further amazes me is the ruthlessness shown by men(duffers) running law and order in Pakistan. They could not capture or probabaly they did not attempt to capture the wild animals who killed innocent muslims in the mosques, christians in the church, doctors on the streets of Karachi and many many other episodes. Probably, Pakistan should outsource their law and order system to some other country known for capturing barbarians and wild animals. As a country, Pakistan's law and order system is a shame to the very name of law and order. Probably, this department's name should be revised to "Lazy, Lethargic, Good For Nothing Olloos."! |
| Name: | Zahra - March 18, 2002 |
| E-mail: | Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | Saeed Farani: I would like to ask you a question. As you are based in Pindi, what is the reaction of people on the mass killings in the Shiites' Mosque few weeks back? Have they taken it as part of their customs and traditions or there is a plan to address the barbaric gesture with local authorities? It amazes me when I pick up a newspaper full of rubbish claims by the authorities stating, Yeh Kurdaen Gae Woh Kurdain Gae. Are the masses dead in their spirit? I am curious to learn about the reaction of locals in that area. Please enlighten! |
| Name: | Zahra - March 18, 2002 |
| E-mail: | Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | Saeed Farani: I would like to ask you a question. As you are based in Pindi, what is the reaction of people on the mass killings in the Shiites' Mosque few weeks back? Have they taken it as part of their customs and traditions or there is a plan to address the barbaric gesture with local authorities? It amazes me when I pick up a newspaper full of rubbish claims by the authorities stating, Yeh Kurdaen Gae Woh Kurdain Gae. Are the masses dead in their spirit? I am curious to learn about the reaction of locals in that area. Please enlighten! |
| Name: | Sameer - March 18, 2002 |
| E-mail: | jbsameer@yahoo.com |
| Comments: | Good discussion about ghazal. I always thought that ghazal is a form of poetry in which broader knowledge of the subject is not necessary whereas poems can describe Ph.D. level research on any topic. Ghazal is more about fantasies, metaphors and abstract thoughts but poor acoustic qualities of rythm. During evolution of society, thoughts and ideas expressed in rythmic poetry were easy to memorize, spread and pass on in the age without modern means of communication or amplification. For the same reason, folk songs are more rythmic, easy to memorize and very appealing to the sense of hearing. I agree with Safir that ghazal appeals more to introvert culture and people whereas Punjabis are known for their extroverted nature. Besides ghazal can not succeed in rural village environment due to poor rythmic nature and too abstract for simple folks, compared to folk rythmic poetry. Dear Bali: Think of Punjabis as a big family. All the chullahs and madhaniaN in my family were silenced long ago since most of them moved to cities. I am sure that you will continue to invoke the love of land and culture without the influence of the break with some traditions within your family. I feel good even thinking about people in anywhere in greater Punjab just being happy and happily indulging with the chores of life in traditional way - because they are my extended family and you too. |
| Name: | Safir Rammah - March 18, 2002 |
| E-mail: | rammah@apnaorg.com |
| Location: | Fairfax, USA |
| Comments: | Bali Jee: For you, from a poem I once heard from Abbas Ather - that's all I can recall now - and two other lines that were part of that poem (MoyaaN de Munh Wee Naa Waikhey - Saade Te OhnaaN De Laikhey): Oss Pind JaavaiN Je KanwaaN Eithe LakhaaN PaaNi RuRh Gaye |
| Name: | Bali - March 18, 2002 |
| E-mail: | swaraj@shaw.ca |
| Comments: | Baithee baithee de khyaal vich gallaN aayaN, and who better to share with all of you as I'm sure you will understand. Especially you dullabhatti as you were talking one day about sentimental value of land, property at home in Punjab. My dad went was the first member of his family to leave Punjab back in 1963, he moved to England where he married my mum...as many other individuals did he worked hard and sent money back home to improve life for his family, they built a better house, and acquired more land. One day my taaya ji said that we think that we too should leave Punjab and come to England. My dad's response was come tommorrow, but then I will come back to Punjab, mein darvaajiya te jinde nahi lagan dene, madaani sukan nahion deni, charkhe dee kook chup nahi haun deni galli ch, apne ghar te kafan nahi pauna. Needless to say my taaya thought it better to stay and carry on the comfortable existence they were enjoying. Anyways gradually both of my taaya's sons left Punjab, one in England and one here in Vancouver, yesterday evening my taaya ji, and taayi ji arrived in Vancouver for good. It all seems so final, saade ghar vee jinde lag gaye. Now going home will not be quite the same, agge taan pajj ke pind vardee see, maure chulaa balda see, lassi tiaar payi see, te vehre vich manjiya te ghar de bande hasde khed de see.... ghar toN khoo tak jaandi see, te pasooaN deeyaN PoochaN cherdi see, baba ji naal bains bains ke ganne mangvaundi see khetoN. Times change I know. My point though is that this is just the story of my home in my pind, but it is repeated everyday with so many others. Punjabi's are leaving in droves, and non-punjabi's are moving into Punjab in droves...darr lagda ki apne puttaraN ton bina, kiveN vasda rahe gaya sada Punjab?? |
| Name: | Bali - March 18, 2002 |
| E-mail: | swaraj@shaw.ca |
| Comments: | p.s Dullabhatti ji, tusi manaana nahiN, par towanu taan pata lag gaya see, ki Samvadaa kinu akhde, tusi eh nee manana ki kayaaN siaaniya ne mainu phone karke puchiya ki betaa kee hunda e.... Taith Punjabi kinni pyaari lagdi a dil nu, mishri vang kuldi a kanna vich. |
| Name: | Bali - March 18, 2002 |
| E-mail: | swaraj@shaw.ca |
| Comments: | Dullabhatti Ji, since you were listening today, you would have heard me talking about 'Balwant kaur' the movie. This is the first authentic Punjabi movie I have seen set in pre-partition Punjab..it was a wonderful depiction of a united Punjab, aside from having to put up with the exaggerated sharaabi sardar's...I would not have minded but ohni eddiaN eddiaN kirpaana paayaN see, eh nee changa lagaa, a stereotype pushed to the maximum. It was a treat just to see, the names Allah, Waheguru and Ram being spoken under the same roof, and of course Balwant Kaur, depicted as a morni/sherni in true Punjabi style. |
| Name: | DullaBhatti - March 18, 2002 |
| E-mail: | dullabhatti47@yahoo.com |
| Comments: | Rammah ji, I totally agree with your previous post. |
| Name: | DullaBhatti - March 18, 2002 |
| E-mail: | DullaBhatti47@yahoo.com |
| Comments: | Bali ji, I could have won the tickets today, If I could get your phone correctly:-). |
| Name: | Safir Rammah - March 18, 2002 |
| E-mail: | rammah@apnaorg.com |
| Location: | Fairfax, VA USA |
| Comments: | Dullah Bhatti: That was a nice ghazal. Aseer Abid has once for all settled the question of whether Punjabi language has what it takes to meet the requirements of ghazal writing. His translation of Ghalib in Punjabi is a testimony to the fact that Punjabi can meet and exceed these requirements in every conceivable detail. You may have noticed that some of Punjabi’s good poets can casually write a couplet with an angle or “wardaat” that outshines the best efforts of Urdu poets. For example, a favorite topic of Urdu poets for the last couple of centuries has been the magic of their lovers glance or look. They have loaded their poetry with every possible “wardaat” related to it, granting it powers to kill dozens at the same time, or to bag dil and jigar with a cursory glance and what not. Then comes along Shiv, who casually writes this couplet which is not even part of a ghazal, although it has all the trappings of a ghazal’s shair: “Nee ik meri akh kashni, utton raat de enedhrey ne maria – shaishe nun taRer pai gayee, wal wohndee nain dhain judon maria.” Lao kar lao gallaN. None of the masters of Urdu ghazal even come close to this casual rendering of Shiv on this particular topic. The point is that the vastness and depth of Punjabi's vocabulary has everything in abundance that is required to write beautiful ghazals in the best possible diction. There are many more words in Punjabi compared to the ghazal writing languages for every shade or color of human experience, thoughts and feelings. Whether ghazal is suitable or not for Punjabi’s temperament is another question. |
| Name: | Moizullah Tariq Malik - March 18, 2002 |
| E-mail: | moizmalik@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | for Apna friends... Taraya Ooo Taraya <\b> Piyar Da Chubara AssaaN JeRa Wee Usaraya Tak Tak TainuN Loki Kadday Hesaab Way Ghar Baitthay Loki Teray GharaN NouN Pay Ginn Day Jhuth Sach JinaN Teray NawaiN Laya Jug NaiN |
| Name: | DullaBhatti - March 18, 2002 |
| E-mail: | dullabhatti47@yahoo.com |
| Comments: | Rammah ji, although I am an avid admirer of Ghazal I do agree with some of the points raised by you. I know from experience that Ghazal needs much more technical, guru-chela kind of training to write properly and many of the people are doing it wrong in Punjabi. Some of the Ghazals that I find to read in papers don't qualify as ghazals to start with. The Ghazal movement in Punjabi is only 40/50 years old(with few exceptions) and have produced some good Ghazal-Gos so for, although ,even today most prominent poets are not real Ghazal-Gos..e.g. Surjit Patar did write some beautiful ghazals but he gets his recognition from his other writings and lately his main mode is not Ghazal. Old timers[Maula Bakhash Kushta, Deepak Jatoi,SS Hamdard] write that not many people believed in early part of the last century(1910s, 20s) that Punjabi is even suitable for writing Ghazal. Atleast that has been proven now that Ghazal can be written in Punjabi following some of the same Behars and Arooz rules as followed by Persian and Urdu. I do agree that it is not very compatible with the Punjabi subhaah and that is probably the reason that Ghazal singing has not achieved any popularity in Punjabi and singers like Jagjit Zirvi are known only in literary circles due to this reason. I also agree on that Ghazal can capture some very profound thoughts, very good ideas and present them in 2 misras some times rendering tremendous impact on the reader or listener but alas, not every shair is like that. Like you said even Urdu Ghazal-gos have many shairs in their Ghazals what we call bharti de shair(place holders). Punjabi wich te har dooja shair bharti da nazar aunda ay. The art of 'toghazal', the nakhra that Persian/Urdu ghazal is famous for is ignored by most of us and making kaafia and radeef match is our minimum requirement for ghazal. I will say one thing from my impression of trends in Punjabi poetry in East Punjab right now...majority of the poets are writing ghazal besides other forms. Even some established ones who never wrote Ghazal before are turning to ghazal. our ustaad ghazal-gos are happy about it and often say..dekho tuhanu kiha si na, ghazal barhi zabardast shai ay....but I think it is a dangerous trend when our attention is more on the form than the ideas being expressed. lao hunn tuhadi saza eh ve ke meri ghazal suno:-) ki aaye haan wattan chhaddke, koi apni thaaN nahi mildi. |
| Name: | Bali - March 17, 2002 |
| E-mail: | swaraj@shaw.ca |
| Comments: | Sorry Guys, missed one link. http://www.legacy-project.org/symposium/comments.html?Symposium_Paper=2&ShowID=8 this one is supposed to go with the one below posting, a view from Pakistan. |
| Name: | Bali - March 17, 2002 |
| E-mail: | swaraj@shaw.ca |
| Comments: | . http://www.legacy-project.org/symposium/paper.html?ID=2 |
| Name: | Safir Rammah - March 17, 2002 |
| E-mail: | rammah@apnaorg.com |
| Location: | Fairfax, VA USA |
| Comments: | Dear Zaki: Your second couplet “Kis vaile chaRhya paagal-pun - Jad sufne vi kujh sahNde nein” is a bit worrisome. We need you to re-charge, tune-up and strengthen your sufne to sustain any paagal-pun, including your paagal-pun about Punjabi. Ghazal is generally not suitable for serious meditations and is prone to capturing momentary and fleeting thoughts and feelings in the hope of grasping something profound or beautiful once in a while. Even in the hands of a true master, with few notable exceptions, it becomes primarily a worthless record of transient and superficial thoughts. One has to suffer, for example, through hundreds of couplets of Mir Taqi Mir in the hope of finding a few gems. I sure hope your second couplet was nothing more than a passing moment of dark feelings and doesn’t represent a permanent state of hopelessness. There are good reasons why Ghazal is not one of the main genres of Punjabi poetry. The history and always “in the trenches’ type of life experience of Punjabis never allowed them the luxury of meaningless musings that may have no relationship to the stark reality around them. It is worth noting that all of our major Sufi poets were very well read in Persian ghazal poerty, but none of them adopted ghazal for their poetic expression. Nothing wrong though, with experimenting a bit with it as you probably do, and many other major Punjabi poets have done. |
| Name: | Joseph John - March 17, 2002 |
| E-mail: | josephjohnsialkoti@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | Panjabi friends, Are there any Punjabi christians, member of APNA? I would like to know if any. Thanks, Joseph. |
| Name: | Dr. Javed Zaki - March 17, 2002 |
| E-mail: | zakimoha@msu.edu |
| Comments: | For everyone! A new Panjabi ghazal. It is one of the very few 'ghazals' I have experimented.
'GHAZAL' Ik dukh vi magrooN lehNde neiN Kis vaile chaRhya paagal-pun Oh wasde aal-dwaale ne Lakh chooriaaN chhanne paana waaN Jidhi niNhaaN sadhraaN daan hoyaaN JinhaaN mun vehRe chaanan bharya |
| Name: | Dr. Javed Zaki - March 17, 2002 |
| E-mail: | zakimoha@msu.edu |
| Comments: | For everyone! A new Panjabi ghazal. It is one of the very few 'ghazals' I have experimented.
'GHAZAL' Ik dukh vi magrooN lehNde neiN Kis vaile chaRhya paagal-pun Oh wasde aal-dwaale ne Lakh chooriaaN chhanne paana waaN Jidhi niNhaaN sadhraaN daan hoyaaN JinhaaN mun vehRe chaanan bharya |
| Name: | Bawa - March 16, 2002 |
| E-mail: | bnanno@indiatimes.com |
| Location: | Leioa, Spain |
| Comments: | Dear Safir and Suman, Yes, i did mean Safirji, sorry about the confusion. Suman, good idea about finfing out about the Tagore theatre concert being recorded, would be very interesting. I am afraid that for some 14+ years now, I am the sole representative for hundreds of kms around as far as I know, not only of Punjab, but even of India. There is a Pakistani consulate, but have never seen who runs it. A couple of years ago I was joined by a fellow indian from Tamil Nadu, and last month he told me there was possible a a British Punjabi now residing, but we have not been able to locate him. Nevertheless, a good many people are getting introduced to Punjabi food and music via me, and I always try to think of behaving in public (I don't know if successfully) as for most people I will be the only person they will meet in real life from the sub-continent, so have to create a good impression. BAWA. |
| Name: | Saeed Farani - March 15, 2002 |
| E-mail: | saeedfarani@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | Dear Mahmud Fahim, Thank you very much. I just finished the article "In Pakistan's Squalor, Cradles of Terrorism Village Illustrates Challenge as U.N. Prepares to Address Poverty as Root Cause" By Paul Blustein Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, March 14, 2002; Page A01. It is worth reading and eye opening article. Dear APNA frieds please go through it. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23886-2002Mar13.html |
| Name: | suman - March 15, 2002 |
| E-mail: | skashy@yahoo.com |
| Comments: | Sameer and Bawa. Thanks for the help, i was able to read the article and my first thought was -'did reeta sharma tape the concert that she organized at the tagore theatre?'. Might be worth checking out. I will send my nooraan songs to safir as soon as I can locate the tape and make a copy. I have Yamla Jat too, if anyone is interested. |
| Name: | Bali - March 15, 2002 |
| E-mail: | swaraj@shaw.ca |
| Comments: | Sameer: The sad truth is that this 'lapse of memory ' is not only true of West Punjab, but also East. Yesterday when I spoke of it most people called and said they had forgotten, or didn't even know, and a large number of Sikhs, thought Baisakhi, April 13th was the new year. Anyways after after much checking I did confirm it was yesterday, and it was summat 2059. Dullabhatti: Pata nahi ki tusi parde haoge ki nahi, par gutka sahib de vich vee ohnee har maheene de 'bara maahaN' de vich arth dasE hoye ne. Since you appear to be a Yamla Jatt fan, tusi suneya hovegaa, 'teri deed nazara jannat dee' I love this song. Apna friends: Jinna ne vee mera vadai da hangaara pariya, ik gal daso, kise ne 'sava' vadai nahi kahee. Dullabhatti ji I have a feeling that towanu pata hona, ki assi sava vadai kyon kehnde ho???? |
| Name: | Sameer - March 15, 2002 |
| E-mail: | jbsameer@yahoo.com |
| Comments: | Suman: Here is the link for tribunindia article. What I do is just copy the link, delete the adress window with backspace, paste and click return. In this way I do not have to type the link myself. Here it is: http://www.tribuneindia.com/2001/20010203/windows/stamped.htm Bawa: I guess you meant Safir Jee instead of Sameer? He is the boss. By the way, how many Punjabis are there at your place in Spain? |
| Name: | Bawa - March 15, 2002 |
| E-mail: | bnanno@indiatimes.com |
| Location: | Leioa, Spain |
| Comments: | Dear Suman, No, this is the only song I have heard by her. Thanks for the information. It would be really great if you could find the casette and get Sameerji to put it on the APNA page. The tribune now has a new system that automatically takes you to today's edition even if you click an old link. You have to go to the ARCHIVES link on top, click 2001, scroll down to FEB 3, and the article appears in a column called STAMPED IMPRESSIONS, included in the Saturday WINDOWS special. There is a link on the left to WINDOWS. The article is by one Reeta Sharma. There is a CD available of (mostly) Punjabi music, but haven't been able to get it. It is advertised at |
| Name: | Moizullah Tariq Malik - March 15, 2002 |
| E-mail: | moizmalik@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | NawaaN Saal Sub Layee KhushiaaN Lay Kay Ayee...Khass Torr Tay Bali ji Layee Kay Unnha Nay Kalender Di Yaad Diwaee Aye Jayhrda Mainu Tay Yaad Eee Nahin Rahaa See ......mainly due to economic associations with other calenders.......Sadaa Khush Rahoo Subb..............Allah Rakha |
| Name: | Sameer - March 15, 2002 |
| E-mail: | jbsameer@yahoo.com |
| Comments: | HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL A special Happy New Year to Bali for introducing me to Punjabi New Year. I am not kidding, I did not know that there is Punjabi new year also. I guess there is still lot more for me to learn about Punjabyat because I grew up in Pakistan with mostly Urdu at home and outside. It is interesting that Punjabi new year is not much different than many other proud culture whose new year starts with the arrival of spring - a regeneration of plant life coinciding with the renewal of time for agrarian societies. I recently found out that Basant is not limited to Lahore, actually other Punjabi cities also celebrate arrival of spring through kite flying on different days than in Lahore. For example Rawalpindi-Islamabad being colder than Lahore celebrates Basant few days later. Sorry Bali, I could not convey happy new year to you sooner. How about million-fold wadhayaN for being late for 86400 seconds (24 hrs). Lo kar lau gal, subah de 4 bajey happy de spelling we ghalat ho gaye. Not a good omen for the rest of the day!!!! |
| Name: | DullaBhatti - March 15, 2002 |
| E-mail: | dullabhatti47@yahoo.com |
| Comments: | Bali ji, vadhai howe naweiN saal di...I thought it starts from Maagh 1st. I once found one song recorded by a famous but mostly unrecorded singer, Naibkotia Kumhaar, on Napster. It was Puran Bhagat's song. then my hard drive crashed and I could not recover anything...I am still saving the hard drive may be some day I will get that song out of it. Rammah ji, do you use Morpheus/kaZa or any other Napster type program? I have a collection of Yamla Jatt that I wanted you to see. |
| Name: | Safir Rammah - March 14, 2002 |
| E-mail: | rammah@apnaorg.com |
| Location: | Fairfax, Va USA |
| Comments: | Suman Jee: I have just one song of Nooran Bibi "Kuli rah vich paalyee assan tere, toon aunda jaunda takda raheen." Didn't know who the singer was until I read Bawa's posting and the article. If you or Bawa can send me a copy, I will be glad to put Nooran Bibi's songs with the article on APNA web. |
| Name: | suman - March 14, 2002 |
| E-mail: | skashy@yahoo.com |
| Comments: | Bawa. There are a few more (4 or 5) Nooraan Bibi songs around. Have you heard them? I have a tape somewhere or maybe safir does and can put them up on the site. She was a fabulous singer. BTW I was not able to find the article at tribuneindia. |
| Name: | Zahra - March 14, 2002 |
| E-mail: | Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | Bali: With great sorrow and deep regret, I have to state that all the airlines I checked with, weren't very kind in response to my enthusiasm. As a result they quoted me rates that made my heart sink to its lowest level. So, I guess I will benfit from your joy.[Tears ! ! ! !] |
| Name: | Bali - March 14, 2002 |
| E-mail: | swaraj@shaw.ca |
| Location: | Vancouver, BC Canada |
| Comments: | Javed Ji:towadi Punjabi te taaN meiN saDke JavaaN, bari mushkil naal samjhi saari. Lagda hai, ki upar 'mezzanine' de vich ik chota jiha banera banauna hee pao. Zahra: The mela is 'pakka' on March 30th, 'Shaunkan Mele Dee'..Baisakhi Trinjan gathering. So I'll write you with more details. Dullabhatti: Pichle saal ethe Vancouver kaafi saare TeeyaN de mele lage see, the largest, had over 6,000 women, can you imagine, ik dooje to vaad rangeele dupatte lai laike aayaN, it was in a sports centre, harak paase, vehra chun chun karda see. APNA FRIENDS: Mein ji bari naraaz a towade saariyaaN de naal, aaj kise ne vee naave saal dee vadai nahi ditti, aaj ji Chet da pehla din, summat 2059, koi vadai taaN devo, kyoN meriaN mintaaN karaunde ho hazoor! |
| Name: | Dr. Javed Zaki - March 14, 2002 |
| E-mail: | zakimoha@msu.edu |
| Comments: | Bali Ji! "MeinooN te aap ushkal hoon lug piaa e je 30 march nooN tohaade des vanjh ke, panjaaN paaniaaN naatiaaN koonjaaN te morniaaN diaaN pailaaN de rangle poorne apne zehn de canvass te naqqsh karaaN. OhnaaN diaaN jhaN-jharaaN te khhanak-de haasiaaN deiaaN suraaN naal apne looN looN de moDDh maddh de somaiy (chashme) rasaa-vaaN. Je moaqa mile te ohne de dopattiaaN te saaloaaN de rangaaN diaan pinghaaN te apni sadhraaN de baave biTha ke duur ambraaN tooN takkaaN. OhnaaN de mathiaan chooN surt te adraak diaaN phhut-diaaN rashmaaN de haale (daire) vich ohnaan sang trinjin gavaaN, luddi nachaaN, jhummar paavaaN. OhnaaN naal aikta di saanjh banavaaN. mard-oarat da paaR (farq) mokaavaaN. Oh jehRa Rooh di uchiaai da surbandh e. Rooh di vidiaai da surbsndh e. (Ik nikki jei taangh) |
| Name: | Mahmud Fahim - March 14, 2002 |
| E-mail: | agsmz@yahoo.com |
| Comments: | Here is a thoughtful article in today's Washington Post about the cradles of terrorism in Pakistan. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23886-2002Mar13.html In a country where economic misery provides a fertile environment for terrorist groups, the crumbling one-room school in this village is a testament to the conditions that keep millions of Pakistanis impoverished. Sitting on battered benches, their feet scuffing the dirty concrete floor, two dozen boys and girls listen as their teacher reels off the school's main problems, which are common to many in this country: no working latrine, no drinking water, no electricity. The students have no textbooks............. |
| Name: | Yousaf Sadiq - March 14, 2002 |
| E-mail: | panjabilinguist@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | Dear all, I'm wish to do an Anthropology (study of man's beliefs and culture/customs) research of my beloved Panjabi culture here in Pakistan. I have following two questions from you & would appreciate your response. 1) What has been written (Anthroplogical research) so far on Panjabi and is available here in Pakistan? If yes, where can I get all the related materials? 2) What anthropological aspects are not touched or written before and you feel one needs to write and do some research on them? some interesting topics/thoughts for such research? Thanks, Yousaf. |
| Name: | Moizullah Tariq Malik - March 14, 2002 |
| E-mail: | moizmalik@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | for Apnas ........... Jai MaiN Honda Chochak..... Jai MaiN Honda Chochak Tay MaiN kee Karrda Kachian UmraaN Houn Tay Ishq Wee Kachaa Aay Kachay RangaaN Naal Kayrda Pay Rung Bhsrrda Ishq Ladrayee Keytee Saaree QaddraaN Naal Chadrr Day Paani Koun Hay Kayrda Hai Tarrda LajjaaN Todrran Walay Saaray Gabhroo NaiN Ishq Kittabi Jang Wich Sooli Jay Chadrrda
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| Name: | Bali - March 14, 2002 |
| E-mail: | swaraj@shaw.ca |
| Comments: | Since today being Thurday everyone,(just wanted to be the first to wish you all) is the first day of Chet, the first month in the Punjabi calendar, I would like to say to all APNA friends: Happy Punjabi New Year! May blessings be showered upon each and everyone! |
| Name: | DullaBhatti - March 14, 2002 |
| E-mail: | dullabhatti47@yahoo.com |
| Comments: | Rammah and Sameer, I have not read the article yet, been a busy week. KS Duggal mentioned in his autobiography that one of his colleagues from pre-partition All India Radio..he was a well known personality..I am forgetting his name...anyway..he was visiting New delhi in early 50s and told Duggal at New Delhi radio station that one day he was traveling in a bus in Lahore. That was immediately after the partition...and like many people he was learning to speak urdu in public to sound hip(nationalistic)...so he asked the bus conductor(or caNNekkTar in punjabi) for a ticket..."mujhe aik ticket bhatti gate ki deina"...the conductor who was much lower in status as well as education and achievements in life said in very insulting way "humaari zubaan ka sateyanaas na karo baba...ticket diya jaata hai ..ticket dee nahi jaati..pata nahi kahan se aa jaatay hain paindoo". He swore not to speak urdu in public again...haalaN ke ticket is not an urdu word so you can use it as male or female..should not matter. Language runs at the core of ones self pride and confidence. e.g. if someone corrects an english word's pronunciation for us, even though we might know our pronunication is wrong, we will feel put down or insulted. When someone has to to put up with that kind fo attitude..that is the biggest insult in my view and a sign of cultural slavery. Zaki sahib, very good stuff. tusi te ajj kall macheen laa lai ay poetry di lagda ay:-). I will post couple of mine by the weekend. hope so. Sameer, I have been waiting to watch gidha sitting on the banera with you for a long time. We missed each other when I visited NYC last year. I was hoping to make a trip next month and see Rammah sahib and other friends but schedule does not look good right now. Bali ji, there is a punjabi boli..goes something like...baariN barsiN khaTan giya si khatke liyande teer, bhehnaN nachdiyan, vekhan sharminday veer...:-) remember it in case sameer ji waqeya mela dekhan aa jaan. BTW "teeyaN" in saawan da maheena used to be exactly the mela like yours. I remember in our village probably 500 girls would get togethr making many group cirlces like little stages and do gidha and boliyan. When I was a kid I used to tag along with my both elder sisters and cousins but then as I grew older I heard the above boli..I took it as a sign to go to the boys "chhinjj" instead which used to be about 500 yards away in other corner of the ground. No I am not pehalwan...although we have the pride to have Kartar from our neighourhood of villages. BTW Kartar Singh's biography by Wareyam Sandhu(both are giraeeN) is a good read for those who can read gurmukhi. |
| Name: | Bali - March 14, 2002 |
| E-mail: | swaraj@shaw.ca |
| Comments: | Zahra, I will let you know the details in a day or so. Interesting, eh taan haun vekhan vaale dee nazar chaheedee a, I can tell you this there will be a majority of Jattian, and Jattian barian dhamaalaN paundian, very energetic, a lot of play acting, roles etc..sometimes a little crude I may add. Its sure much fun though, at least I find it so. Jattian da giddha vee hor hee hai, sharam shuram nee rakhdiyan laage shaage. Sameer Ji, towadi gal mein kiven mind karoongee, nahi ji, gal hee nahi paida hundi. Towanu pata hona ki kuri nu jad pata hove munde baneriyaN te baithe nighaa shaant maarde a, te oh vee hor chaamal ke, baaNh lamee karke, hor zor naal dharti te addi mardiaN. Phul de mehak de kee nazaare, je koi mehak lain te vekhan vaala na hove. Kee khyaal e towada? |
| Name: | Zahra - March 13, 2002 |
| E-mail: | Z_Jamshed@hotmail.com |
| Comments: | Bali: If you are confirmed and I mean confirmed as confirmed, then I will be ready to fly out. I am in Canada at least twice a year, mainly to Ottawa, as I have a very good friend and her family settled there. Last year, I headed out there for a vacation to Montreal, Quebec City and Ottawa. This time, I will look forward to Vancouver. I have never been there. I have heard beautiful things about the place though. Also, I think my Visa to Canada is still valid and may expire in this May. Aside from that, I had an opportunity to listen to some Sikh Ladies at a Mehdni Ceremony in Ottawa a few years back. I was completely taken aback to hear their melodious voice. There is a different "Lai" when it comes to the delivery. By different I mean, very musical and melodious. I have never been to any Giddha kind of gatherings here, though back home before the weddings we have so many of the dholak parties. They are mostly attended by friends and family and a lot of bhangraa and male/female groups try to outshine each other :) Bali: Main Waqai Serious Hoon. Aur Main Waqi Tapak Bhee Paroon Gee. Please make sure that you are not teasing me and really mean that there will be something interesting there. That will be real fun. Please send me the invite once it's confirmed on my following email address: Zahra_Jamshed@msn.com Thank You. |
| Name: | Sameer - March 13, 2002 |
| E-mail: | jbsameer@yahoo.com |
| Location: | New York, USA |
| Comments: | Dear Bali, Javed Zaki and Safir: Fortunate to be communication with an exceptional bunch of Punjabis. I wish to have way to send fragrance with the words here. Thanks you all. Zaki Saheb, another sentimental poem about Punjab and that too upon request. Well I will post a satire for you and others which I posted elsewhere at Basant. I am not a poet at all, besides it is in Urdu. Here we go: Zinda Dilan-e-Lahore Shehr jagmaga utha, har su ujaala phail gaya surmai sham maiN Mah rukhoN kay pairahan naiN, mehka dee sarsoN fazaoN maiN PatangoN ney rang b'kher diye, ufq per aur aasman maiN Aaj na woh Ghaznavi maiN tarap rahi, na who kham hey zulf-e-Ayaz maiN Right mow I am thinking about another line, "aik hee saf maiN khare ho gaye Mahmood-o-Ayaz". I plan to use it in a scene of sectarian killing in Pakistan. Something like, I think I need to work on it by adding Persian or Arabic words. Bali jee. Make sure there is no slit or hole from where I can peep through watching Punjabans performing giddha. Per jo sawad baneriaN te beth ke giddha wekhan da hey ohda koi jawab naheeN. Watch out for DullaBhatti and Sameer having advance booking for the best seat on the banairey......Just kidding Bali. I am confident that even if you mind it, I will make it up as soon as possible. |
| Name: | Bali - March 13, 2002 |
| E-mail: | swaraj@shaw.ca |
| Location: | Vancouver, USA |
| Comments: | Dear Sameer, your comment about Nusrat is one that often crosses my mind. Some people are forever missed, Nusrat is one. I once remember saying on the show, that there are times that I imagine if 'God' has a voice, this must be it. One of my listeners told me that tommorrow is the beginning of the Punjabi New Year, anyone throw any light on this please, mein pehla pehla 12 maheeniya de naa da chete kar lavaN. :-) Zahra, the details have not all been set yet, but the event most likely is March 30th, a Saturday night in Vancouver. Karna pata assi kee a, Trinjan laake baithaaN giyaN, uchii uchii hekaaN laake boliyan paundiaN, giddha paake dharti hilaa devangiyaaN poori raat. I'm making the ticket price cheaper for those that come in traditional phulkari, etc. So tusi koshish kariyo zaroor, the more the merrier. I only need an excuse for a party, and Baiskahi is a good one. We have singers planned, giddha teams muqabla, much more, and the saying for the night (excuse the phrase) Jehri giddha na paave, Rann Baabe Dee! Kehan dee taan lor nee vaise, saare Jag nu pata, ki nachanwaali dee addi na rehandi, te gaunvaale da mooNh! Te eh dovain kammaN vich Punjaban sherni e So Zahra, Boli mein paavaN te nachi aake giddhe vich tu ;-) p.s Thanks for all the name suggestions Dullabhatti & Javed Ji. |
| Name: | Dr. Javed Zaki - March 13, 2002 |
| E-mail: | zakimoha@msu.edu |
| Comments: | Dulla Bhatti Ji! Thanks for compliments on the recent poem. Sameer Ji! There is a lot that we can creatively debate and discuss about 'myths' and their rolea in a culture and other aspects. Anyways, I am posting a 'poem' about Des Panjab. ((((( DES PANJAB )))) Des mere de athre gabhroo ranjhe te mehin-waal Veer chanhaaN de miThRe paani ragg-ragg de vich vagde Baag bahishtaaN verge baile jind maanan di thaaN Anakh da jhanda ucha rakh ke jina sikhiaa lokaaN |
| Name: | Safir Rammah - March 13, 2002 |
| E-mail: | rammah@apnaorg.com |
| Location: | Fairfax, VA USA |
| Comments: | Dear Sameer: Of course it is a humorous piece in Urdu and is written for Urdu reading audience. It is true that many Punjabis have trouble speaking standard Urdu and many jokes are made out of their inability to speak correct Urdu, just like jokes are made out of Pathan’s inability to correctly use Urdu pronouns for genders. All these jokes have an undertone of cultural/linguistic superiority of Urdu. They express an attitude of looking down upon those who cannot speak proper Urdu. I found the same undertones in this article as well and couldn’t help the temptation to give it my own “spin” to make a point or two. |